Two can play this game: Israel would inform - not ask - before hitting Iran
I hope - and suspect - that this analysis is true.A US diplomat told Reuters that in the event that Israel were to attack Iran, he believes that Defense Minister Ehud Barak would call Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to give him a heads up - after the mission is in progress (Hat Tip: Memeorandum).
While no one questions Israel's willingness to attack should it deem U.S.-led talks on curbing Iranian uranium enrichment a dead end, such strikes would almost certainly entail at least last-minute coordination with Washington.The article goes on to claim that Israel informed the US of the destruction of the Syrian nuclear plant in September 2007, but did not seek its permission. And it's no secret that Menachem Begin did not seek permission to destroy the Iraqi reactor at Osirak in 1981 and that Ronald Reagan's reaction was "boys will be boys."
Israel would want to ensure that its jets would not be shot down by accident if overflying U.S.-occupied Iraq, and to give Americans in the Gulf forewarning of possible Iranian reprisals.
"Whether or not Israel got the green light from Washington to attack Iran is almost immaterial, as everybody in the region would believe that the U.S. was complicit," said Karim Sadjadpour of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
One U.S. diplomat envisaged Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak telephoning Pentagon chief Robert Gates, unannounced, "to give a heads-up and explain" once the mission were under way.
Gates and the U.S. military brass have voiced distaste for pre-emptive strikes on Iran, which says its uranium enrichment is for legitimate electricity production, not weapons. But their public comments have acknowledged that Israel could break rank.
"I do not doubt that Israel will do what it thinks it needs to do, regardless of whether the U.S. approves," said Mark Fitzpatrick, non-profileration expert at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London.
"Israel would seek forgiveness, not permission."
A retired Israeli general who advises the government on strategic issues suggested there was a tacit synchronicity in recent messages about Iran from Israel and the United States:
"The Israeli threat adds urgency to Obama's calls for diplomatic engagement, and should Israel take things into its hands, the Americans retain wriggle room, some deniability."
Read the whole thing.
Heh.
posted by Carl in Jerusalem @ 5:07 PM
14 Comments:
go israel.i hope you do whats best for your people not whats best for obama..........obama is not a friend to israel...............he well sell israel down the river like he sold us americans.........most americans are un aware of whats going on.because we no longer have a free press.........but as the days go by and they see how bad everything gets they well come to know the real man in the whitehouse,,the truth allawys comes out........i say to israel you HAVE NO FRIEND IN THE WHITEHOUSE WE HAVE NO FRIEND IN THE WHITEHOUSE.........GOOD LUCK.....................
I'd certainly hope that, in the even of an Israeli attack on the Iranian nuclear weapons facilities, the Israeli Govt. would NOT give the Obama Administration advance warning. Were I the Israeli PM, I'd not warn Mr. Hussein Obama & Co. until the first wave of attack aircraft were actually bombing their targets.
I agree with what Christine essentially said...and you can draw the logical inference from my comment in that light.
That assumes Iraq is the only option. If there are other avenues of attack, there may be no coordination at all. And Israel does not need to seek forgiveness for defending its existence.
Iran's oil refineries should be covertly destroyed asap.
that would be a great gesture for the Iranians to get back in line...
Who's to say WHO bombed the refinery...
Make a new group called the "Esther's Enforcers" should take credit..
Iran's oil refineries should be covertly destroyed asap.
that would be a great gesture for the Iranians to get back in line...
Who's to say WHO bombed the refinery...
Make a new group called the "Esther's Enforcers" should take credit..
Carl, sorry for the dupe postings... did not see the moderation comment..
AIPAC's meeting was scary...
But AIPAC position concerning the support of the Israeli position on a 2 state solution bears reminding you that the position "2 states" REQUIRED the palestinians to stop terror, violence, incitement & accept the Jewish State of Israel.
When pigs fly...
the Palestinians cannot actually change, Hamas was clear this week...
no
and abbas was clear last week...
no jewish state
no acceptance of the Right for Israel to be a Jewish state?
No Palestine...
I get the feeling that Congress is still a loyal ally to the State of Israel, whereas I feel the Whitehouse is throwing Israel under the bus
And the next step would be strong arm time:
You will form an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza NOW!
It would give the US immense leverage over Israel which the Obama administration would use in ways Israel would not appreciate.
You are living in a fool's paradise.
Do you really think Obama would simply wink and say "Boys will be boys?"
What I think you don't understand is that many Westerners are "moderate Zionists" or "quasi-Zionists".
We believe in the rights of the Jewish people in Israel. But we also believe in the rights of ordinary people to the areas they live in. And the Arab inhabitants of mandatory Palestine are no exception.
This is the Balfour formula: A Jewish National Home IN Palestine. And the rights of the native inhabitants not to be curtailed.
Since there are large numbers of native Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza and it would be a flagrant injustice either to expel them or to dominate them without their consent, there MUST be a Palestinian state in those areas.
Borders are negotiable. Lots of things are negotiable. But the basic fact is inevitable.
And fundamental justice requires it.
Should anyone try to destroy Israel, we would spend our national blood in her defense. I support that. Many Americans do.
But should Israel insist on keeping the West Bank and Gaza whole and entire for the foreseeable future, she must be forced to change her mind.
Israel DEPENDS on America for her survival. We are willing to defend her and assist her, regardless of the cost to our national interests. Justice requires it.
But we are NOT willing to underwrite or defend her endless domination of the majority Arab areas.
In those areas, there MUST BE a Palestinian state. Israel's security concerns? She has many legitimate ones.
But the Palestinians have the right to a state in the areas they inhabit. And it's not just Obama, it's America that is running out of patience with her.
I was a McCain supporter. I do not like President Obama. But I think in the next four years, Israel will be forced to acquiesce in the creation of a Palestinian state roughly along the lines of Taba. Forced by unremitting American pressure to do so. Willy-nilly.
And I think that will be good for Israel and good for America. It won't be problem free. But it will be very good.
A disaster of course for the wholehearted Zionist project which says that all of Biblical Israel must be made into a Jewish state.
But a State of Israel doesn't have to include all of Biblical Israel. It obviously won't include Jordan or the parts of Sinai, Syria, and Lebanon which are included in the grant of God to the Twelve Tribes. That's not in the cards even in your political world, I assume. And it won't include most of what was outside the Green Line.
But: a State of Israel will exist.
And the US will guarantee it.
Is that good enough for you? Or would you rather go down in a blaze of glory and be left with nothing, cursing those who would defend your "half loaf" with their lives and treasure?
Jeff,
Do you also favor a Puerto Rican state in Harlem? A Mexican state in Texas? A Black or Muslim state in Detroit? What's the difference? Where does it stop?
(And that's without even touching the question of when and where the 'Palestinians' came from).
How about a few Gypsy states in every European country (and USA)? It would be only fair.
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Jeff said...
What I think you don't understand is that many Westerners are "moderate Zionists" or "quasi-Zionists".
===============================
On the contrary! We are all fully aware of you and the company you keep.
-------------------------------
We believe in the rights of the Jewish people in Israel. But we also believe in the rights of ordinary people to the areas they live in. And the Arab inhabitants of mandatory Palestine are no exception.
===============================
We don't believe in the rights of people whose unified aims, as specified in all of there charters, is to destroy the Jewish state of Israel. Sounds crazy, huh?
-------------------------------
This is the Balfour formula:===============================
I'm not here by the grace of Balfour. We have returned by the grace of Hashem and the first Rashi in the Torah.
-------------------------------
A Jewish National Home IN Palestine. And the rights of the native inhabitants not to be curtailed.===============================
After 80+ years of butchering us, in their still ongoing effort to throw us into the sea, we don't owe them bupkes.
You want to play "Balfour"? I'll play "Peel Commission", which came to the conclusion even back in 1937 that:
“An irrepressible conflict has arisen between two national communities within the narrow bounds of one small country. There is no common ground between them. Their national aspirations are incompatible. Neither of the two national ideals permits of combination in the service of a single State.”-------------------------------
Since there are large numbers of native Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza and it would be a flagrant injustice either to expel them or to dominate them without their consent, there MUST be a Palestinian state in those areas.
===============================
It is time to say goodbye to the Arabs in the land of Israel - all of them.
Let them drink the waters of Amman or Secaucus, for all I care.
-------------------------------
Borders are negotiable. Lots of things are negotiable. But the basic fact is inevitable.
And fundamental justice requires it.
===============================
Too bad. Too late. We're fed up. Population transfer is the way to go! If it was good enough for Russia, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Turkey, Algeria and Indonesia - to name a few - it's good enough for Israel.
-------------------------------
Should anyone try to destroy Israel, we would spend our national blood in her defense. I support that. Many Americans do.===============================
It's time we were weaned. We have watched the US dump its allies throughout the last century and the last 5 months.
-------------------------------
But should Israel insist on keeping the West Bank and Gaza whole and entire for the foreseeable future, she must be forced to change her mind.
===============================
NUTS.-------------------------------
Israel DEPENDS on America for her survival. We are willing to defend her and assist her, regardless of the cost to our national interests. Justice requires it.
-------------------------------
This is simply horse manure. Israel is now being stabbed in the back by the Obama admin, as pointed out here at Israel Matzav. This is old hat, historically speaking. The US has denied Israel vital assistance over and over again during its 61 years of statehood, even before day 1. Go learn some history.
-------------------------------
But we are NOT willing to underwrite or defend her endless domination of the majority Arab areas.
===============================
Buh-bye.
-------------------------------
In those areas, there MUST BE a Palestinian state.
===============================
But I am a Palestinian!!!
-------------------------------
Israel's security concerns? She has many legitimate ones.
But the Palestinians have the right to a state in the areas they inhabit.
===============================
When you return the lands to the native American Indians, let us know.
-------------------------------
And it's not just Obama, it's America that is running out of patience with her.
===============================
Did I say buh-bye?
-------------------------------
I was a McCain supporter. I do not like President Obama. But I think in the next four years, Israel will be forced to acquiesce in the creation of a Palestinian state roughly along the lines of Taba. Forced by unremitting American pressure to do so. Willy-nilly.
And I think that will be good for Israel and good for America. It won't be problem free. But it will be very good.
A disaster of course for the wholehearted Zionist project which says that all of Biblical Israel must be made into a Jewish state.
But a State of Israel doesn't have to include all of Biblical Israel. It obviously won't include Jordan or the parts of Sinai, Syria, and Lebanon which are included in the grant of God to the Twelve Tribes. That's not in the cards even in your political world, I assume. And it won't include most of what was outside the Green Line.
But: a State of Israel will exist.
And the US will guarantee it.
Is that good enough for you?
===============================
No. It's a recipe for suicide. Show us how you do it first and we'll reconsider.
-------------------------------
Or would you rather go down in a blaze of glory and be left with nothing, cursing those who would defend your "half loaf" with their lives and treasure?
===============================
We shall see who shall fall these next coming years. Watch this space.
Shy Guy,
You've been hanging around MF for too long.
Heh.
I think Israel has a right to exist.
I think the Palestinian Arabs have a right to a state.
These are equivalencies.
You don't occupy Syria just because Syria doesn't recognize Israel. Nor did you occupy Jordan when it didn't recognize Israel.
The way to create a Palestinian state is to simply withdraw from most of the territory and declare your support for a Palestinian state to be formed there and recognized. Questions of final borders, de jure recognition, return of refugees, final status of Jerusalem to be settled later.
You just get the hell out and let them have their state.
And most severe retaliation to be expected for any attacks on Israel.
Nonsense that Israel depends for its very existence on the United States? Hmmm...
So I guess it's no problem for Israel if we simply withdrew our financial, diplomatic, and military support. You guys don't need it anyway. We can have a friendly relationship and just agree to disagree. Any problems you have with your neighbors and with the rest of the world, you can just handle on your own.
I think the real choices are:
1. Two states with most of pre-67 Arab lands forming the Arab state and the rest Israel, or
2. The destruction of Israel and nothing for you.
Unpleasant and dangerous as those alternatives may be to you, I don't think a third choice exists. So you'd better try to make the first one work.
Otherwise your children will be asking the "Who lost Israel?" question.
Jeff,
You mean like Gaza? That worked out real well, didn't it?
Speaking of Gaza, have you looked at a map?
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