What could 'kill peace'
Zany Zehava Gal-On of Meretz knows exactly what could 'kill peace':
Asking the people of Israel to vote whether they actually want it on the terms being agreed to by Tzipi Livni. A bill to remind us that the government promised to do just that is making its way through the Knesset.
The legislation in question essentially turns the existing Referendum
Law into a Basic Law, meaning that is meant to eventually become part
of the constitution. It also adds a clause making the day of the
referendum a vacation day.
The Referendum Law requires any treaty
conceding sovereign land to be brought to the Knesset. If over 80 MKs
approve, the deal can be implemented. If 61 to 80 MKs approve, it will
be brought to a referendum. If less than half of all MKs approve, the
treaty will be rejected.
The legislation does not apply to a
treaty conceding parts of the West Bank, but it does apply to east
Jerusalem, the Golan and anything within the 1949 armistice lines.
A
joint panel of the Knesset House Committee and Law, Constitution and
Justice Committee approved the proposal and rejected any changes to
it. The bill is expected to go to a final vote in the plenum in the
second week of March, as part of a coalition legislative package
including haredi enlistment and electoral reform bills. Levin explained
that the new bill is a technical change that was part of coalition
agreements.
...
In an earlier joint committee meeting on the bill, Levin said
reinforcing the Referendum Law as a Basic Law is meant to to defend it
from petitions to the Supreme Court. Meretz leader Zehava Gal-On,
however, said the bill undermines peace and the Knesset.
"The
Knesset must preserve its dignity and its status, not only in decisions
on the budget but also in important diplomatic matters," Gal-On said.
"The
referendum bill that [Finance Minister Yair] Lapid and [Economy
Minister Naftali] Bennett are trying to promote will change the rules of
the game and move the responsibility from the legislature to the
nation. This will harm the Knesset and its authority in a representative
democracy."
According to Gal-On, "anyone who is trying to promote a referendum wants to sabotage a peace agreement."
Sabotage? Errr.... no.... Both the treaties with Jordan and Egypt got more than 80 MK's. What this legislation is aimed to do is to ensure that we aren't sold out for
red Mitsubishi's again.
Labels: Israeli Knesset, Middle East peace process, referendum law, two-state solution, Tzipi Livni, Zehava Gal-On
79% of Israeli Jews expect 'peace talks' to fail
Someone at the JPost needs to fix the headline (hopefully they will by the time you see this post).
79% of Israeli Jews don't believe the newest round of 'peace talks' will succeed. What a shock....
The poll found that seventy-nine percent of Israeli Jews think the new
round of negotiations have a low chance of success of yielding a peace
agreement, while 18% believe they have a high chance of succeeding. The
numbers were very different among Arab Israelis, among whom 41% think
there is a low chance of success and 47% believe there is a high chance.
There were also large differences between Jewish and Arab Israelis
regarding their perception of the sincerity of the sides in the
diplomatic talks. Among Israeli Jews, 63% believe the Israeli government
is truly interested in returning to the negotiating table and just 29%
believe the Palestinian Authority wants the negotiations. Among Arabs,
58% say the Israelis are sincere about the talks and 85% believe the
Palestinians are truly interested in the negotiations.
As for the prospects of a referendum on any potential deal passing....
Under the conditions of a permanent peace agreement with security
arrangements, a demilitarized Palestinian state, international
guarantees, and a Palestinian declaration of the end of conflict, 63%
of Israeli Jews oppose withdrawal to the pre-1967 borders with land
swaps, 58% oppose dismantling settlements while leaving the Ariel, Maale
Adumim, and Gush Etzion blocs intact, and 50% oppose transferring Arab
neighborhoods in Jerusalem to the PA along with a special arrangement
for the holy places. Seventy-seven percent of Israeli Jews oppose
recognition of a Palestinian “right of return” involving the return of a
small number of refugees and financial compensation for the rest.
If
a referendum were held today on a peace agreement including withdrawal
from Judea and Samaria and an evacuation of settlements, 58% of Jewish
respondents and 33% of Arab respondents believe the agreement would be
rejected by the people. Only 29% of Jewish respondents and 58% of Arab
respondents believe it would win a majority.
Yes, each and every one of the items in the first paragraph was proposed by Ehud Olmert to Abu Mazen in 2008. Abu Mazen rejected the proposal.
And in a result that is sure to lead to cries of racism....
Eighty-eight percent of Israeli Arabs and 46% of Israeli Jews think that
all Israeli citizens should vote in such a referendum, while four
percent of Israeli Arabs and 49% of Israeli Jews think that the vote
should be limited to Jewish citizens only.
Maybe Israeli Jews aren't so dumb after all.
Labels: agreed land swaps, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, Judea and Samaria, Middle East peace process, Palestinian state, referendum law, settlement blocs
Flock Builder on how to conduct a National Referendum and simulation of the peace talks
Flock Builder explains how to conduct the National Referendum on
Israel's future and computer expert Geek Bizarre presents a computerized
simulation of the anticipated rounds of peace talks. Yes, it's the weekly LATMA update.
Let's go to the videotape.
Labels: Ahmed Tibi, Anders Behring Brievik, apartheid state, Aviv Gefen, Binyamin Netanyahu, humor, LATMA, Middle East peace process, Oslo, Palestinian terrorists, referendum law, Roger Waters, stone throwers, Yair Lapid
Netanyahu to Arab MK: 'We were here before you and we'll be here after you'
This took place during the debate on the Referendum Law (the law to make the holding of a referendum in the event that Israel gives part of its 'sovereign' territory - but not parts of Judea and Samaria - to the Arabs), which passed its first reading in the Knesset 66-45 on Thursday morning.
Let's go to the videotape.
More to follow.
During the debate, MK Motti Yogev (Bayit Yehudi) said "the Land of
Israel belongs to the people of Israel," and MK Jamal Zahalke (Balad)
responded: "We [Arabs] were here before you and we'll be here after
you."
In an unusual move, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu asked
to take the podium and said to Zahalke: "The first part isn't true, and
the second won't be."
...
Soon after, Netanyahu posted the exchange on Facebook and twitter,
and Economy Minister Naftali Bennett wrote on Facebook that he's proud
of Netanyahu.
"We were here first, because it says so in the
Torah," UTJ MK Moshe Gafni pointed out, and Finance Minister Yair Lapid,
who rarely agrees with Gafni on anything, shouted out "that's right."
At least they got something right in the Knesset. If you
read the whole thing, you'll see how much they got wrong.
Labels: Binyamin Netanyahu, Israel is a Jewish state, Israeli Knesset, referendum law
Referendum bill passes cabinet, terrorist release still being discussed
Israel's cabinet has approved the bill subjecting the transfer of land within 'Israel proper' to a referendum, but it is
still discussing the release of 104 terrorists demanded by the 'Palestinians' as a condition for returning to 'peace talks.'
The cabinet on Sunday approved the draft of a bill mandating a
national referendum if an accord with the Palestinians is reached that
necessitates withdrawals from part of Jerusalem or land swaps. The bill
will be brought to the Knesset for a vote on Wednesday.
"Any
agreement, if it is achieved in negotiations, will be brought as a
referendum. It is important that every citizen will directly vote on
fateful decisions like these that determine the future of the state,"
Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said during the meting.
The only two ministers to oppose the bill were Justice Minister Tzipi
Livni and Environmental Protection Minister Amir Peretz, both from
Hatnua.
The bill, which is to be a basic law, will essentially say
that any change in the status of territories where Israeli law applies
will have to be brought before the country in the form of a referendum
after the move passes the government and the Knesset.
The bill
does not, however, call for a referendum on an agreement that calls for
the transfer of any parts of Judea and Samaria to the Palestinians,
although there is some talk now of perhaps legislating a bill to that
regard as well.
Yes, there ought to be a bill like that, but I would bet that there would be a lot more opposition to such a bill in the cabinet, and that Netanyahu would be pressured by the Obama junta to try to block it.
Meanwhile, Likud ministers are apparently being pressured by both sides of the terrorist release issue:
Likud ministers faced pressure from within the party to vote against
the release of the prisoners. Army Radio on Sunday morning quoted a
letter to ministers from a senior member of the Likud party, Meir Dahan,
saying that they were freeing "the murderers of Jews with unbearable
ease" as part of negotiations without any preconditions.
Likud ministers said Netanyahu had pressured them to support the prisoner release.
Who will win? What could go wrong?
UPDATE 3:09 PM
As of now, terrorist release vote is 11 for, 8 against, 3 undecided (and there's one missing).
Liveblog
here.
Labels: Binyamin Netanyahu, Likud party, Middle East peace process, Palestinian terrorists, referendum law
Government referendum law will not stop giveaway of Judea and Samaria
Facing an ultimatum from Jewish Home leader Naftali Bennett, the government plans to push through a bill turning the referendum law into a 'basic law' that has constitutional status. But before you all go praising Bennett for his brilliance in forcing Prime Minister Netanyahu's hand, please consider the law's
very limited effect.
Because the legislation only deals with sovereign land, the government
will not have to hold a referendum to sign a treaty giving parts of
Judea and Samaria to the Palestinians. However, if a peace agreement
includes parts of Jerusalem or land swaps, it would require a vote.
So the government can give up every last inch of Judea and Samaria so long as they don't give up land in Jerusalem, but they can't swap the Arab towns in the 'triangle,' for example, for land in Judea or Samaria, without passing a referendum.
Something is really wrong here.
Labels: 1949 armistice lines, Binyamin Netanyahu, Naftali Bennett, referendum law
Netanyahu's referendum cop-out
In a bid to prevent his Right wing coalition partners from bolting the cabinet, Prime Minister Netanyahu promised on Sunday that any 'peace deal' with the 'Palestinians' would be
brought for a referendum before the country.
Any future agreement with the Palestinians will be brought to the
country in the form of a referendum, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu
said at the outset of the weekly cabinet meeting on Sunday, just hours
after finishing a six-hour late-night meeting with US Secretary of State John Kerry.
This
was Netanyahu's third meeting with Kerry since he arrived Thursday
afternoon. Generally promises of a referendum are made to neutralize a
political crisis by assuring ministers opposed that they need not bolt
the government over the issue because the public will ultimately decide.
On the one hand, it would be absurd for Israel to make any kind of deal without a referendum. As I noted
here,
With all that Israelis supposedly 'want' a 'two-state solution,' when
you get specific, very few actually are willing to pay the price that
'everyone knows' we would pay - which is not enough to satisfy the
'Palestinians' anyway.
Saying that we could vote out the government if it made a peace deal
Israelis didn't like is meaningless; it would be shutting the barn door
after the cow has escaped.
And calling Israel's government representative is questionable at best
and farcical at worst, given that you can only vote for a party into
whose slate you have no input.
So you really can't make a 'peace deal' without a referendum. And yet... The key to a referendum is phrasing the question. Who will phrase it? What will it say? What kind of disclosure will the public be given before it votes? Will there be secret annexes? Who will be eligible to vote? What consequences will there if the referendum doesn't pass? What kind of pressure will be placed on Israelis to say yes?
What could go wrong?
Labels: Binyamin Netanyahu, Middle East peace process, referendum law, two-state solution
Why successive Israeli governments have feared a referendum on a 'peace treaty'
The Prime Minister and much of the Likud component of Likud-Beiteinu favors a public referendum on any agreement that turns land over to the 'Palestinians.'
The usual suspects are opposed, and the 'Jewish Home' cannot make up its mind.
"I support and respect the process, because if we reach a diplomatic
agreement, it can't pass with a happenstance majority [in the Knesset],"
Netanyahu said at a Likud faction meeting.
Yisrael Beytenu leader Avigdor Liberman, however, said that he is not
a proponent of the idea, but would support it if the coalition does.
"A referendum is a way of running away from making decisions," he stated.
The
issue of a referendum on a peace treaty rose earlier this week, as
Economics and Trade Minister Naftali Bennett hopes to turn the existing
law into a basic law, giving it constitutional status.
The current
law, proposed by coalition chairman Yariv Levin (Likud Beytenu)
requires a referendum on any treaty that includes giving up land under
Israeli sovereignty. This means that a referendum would not be necessary
to give the Palestinian Authority control over more of the West Bank,
but would be required to authorize land swaps.
In addition, the
Bayit Yehudi has yet to submit a bill on the topic and has not clarified
whether making Levin's bill a basic law would suffice for the party, or
if they would want to expand it.
...
"A referendum only gives the nation veto power. It doesn't let
citizens overturn the Knesset's decision if it rejects a peace treaty,"
Justice Minister Tzipi Livni said.
Livni added that she believes the public will support a peace treaty, and if not, it can vote in a new government.
"I don't fear the public, but it's [the government's] job to make decisions," she stated.
Leader
of the Opposition Shelly Yacimovich (Labor) pointed out that Israel is a
representative democracy, and that every few years citizens vote for
parties they support, which are supposed to make decisions.
"There
is not a hint of democracy behind the idea of a referendum specifically
about a diplomatic treaty," she said. "The opposite is true. The
selectiveness [in referendum topics] speaks for itself."
These are precisely the issues. With all that Israelis supposedly 'want' a 'two-state solution,' when you get specific, very few actually are willing to pay the price that 'everyone knows' we would pay - which is not enough to satisfy the 'Palestinians' anyway.
Saying that we could vote out the government if it made a peace deal Israelis didn't like is meaningless; it would be shutting the barn door after the cow has escaped.
And calling Israel's government representative is questionable at best and farcical at worst, given that you can only vote for a party into whose slate you have no input.
Labels: Avigdor Lieberman, Binyamin Netanyahu, Israeli democracy, referendum law, Shelly Yacimovich, two-state solution, Tzipi Livni
Haaretz calls Knesset majority 'extreme right'
In an editorial in Thursday's editions, Haaretz, Israel's
Hebrew 'Palestinian'
Daily, blasts
Monday night's 65-33 passage of a law that would require either an 80-member majority or an up or down referendum in order for the government to forfeit land in Jerusalem or the Golan Heights. Haaretz accuses 'Israel's leaders' of 'handcuffing themselves to the
extreme Right' (Hat Tip:
Memeorandum).
The law's supporters claim that a referendum is a legitimate democratic instrument utilized by many enlightened countries in order to involve the citizenry in important decisions. In actual fact, the vast majority of referenda relate to domestic issues. In our case, the public is being given veto power over crucial decisions on foreign policy and security issues. These decisions are destined to influence the fates of many people who live under Israeli occupation. Any reasonable person knows that reapportioning sovereignty in Jerusalem is a necessary condition for a peace arrangement with the Palestinians.
Haaretz is dead wrong, and the fact that the law passed by a nearly 2-1 margin (aside from several MK's, including from the Left wing Labor party, who, as noted, could not bring themselves to vote against it) shows how out of touch Haaretz is with Israel's political reality in November 2010.
One need look no further than the United States, where treaties that are often of far less import to the United States' continued existence may only be enacted with the advise and consent of two thirds of the United States Senate. Not coincidentally, the referendum law exempts any agreement that is enacted with the approval of 80 members of the Knesset, which is two thirds of the Knesset. That kind of majority is attainable for a deal that the public deems fair and reasonable (whether or not the public is correct). Both the Camp David treaty with Egypt and Israel's 1994 peace treaty with Jordan garnered more than two thirds of the Knesset's membership.
As far as 'reapportioning sovereignty' in Jerusalem goes, at the moment, the 'Palestinians' are unwilling to accept any deal that does not include expelling the 180,000 Jews who live beyond the 1949 armistice line but within the Jerusalem city limits from their homes. As one of those Jews, I do not agree to have my fate decided based on 'coalition discipline,' by a Knesset where I cannot point to anyone who is specifically tasked with representing and being sympathetic to my interests, and by individual Knesset members who may be
susceptible to bribery with fancy cars and lofty-sounding positions. Sadly, Israelis no longer feel that they can trust the Knesset to look out for their best interests - and with good reason.
So, no, the Knesset is not handcuffing itself to the 'extreme right.' It is expressing the will of the people (for once). If Haaretz chooses to characterize mainstream Israel as 'extreme right,' that is their problem, not ours.
Labels: Golan Heights, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, referendum law
Referendum law an 'obstacle to peace'?
As many of you have undoubtedly heard, the Knesset passed a 'referendum law on Monday night in final reading (which means it's now the law). The vote was 65-33 - not even close.
The law does not apply to Judea and Samaria. It applies to Jerusalem and to the Golan Heights, each of which has been legally annexed to Israel under Israeli law. Under the law, any decision to forfeit land in Jerusalem or the Golan Heights must be ratified by a public referendum to take place within 180 days. It's an up-or-down vote, run by the country's election commission but without an accompanying election.
The law has been condemned by Israel's Left, and by such luminaries as Bashar al-Assad as an 'obstacle to peace.' Here is a
sampling of the reaction, and then I'll come back to it.
The National Referendum Law which was passed by the Knesset on Monday night is "democratic and responsible," Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said Tuesday afternoon.
"Anyone making deals with national implications should not be worried about bringing those agreements before the nation," he said during a visit to Israel Airspace Industries, next to Ben-Gurion International Airport.
The prime minister added, "I think that the referendum law which passed in the Knesset yesterday is of utmost importance. It ensures that... if we enter into peace process, even one which could have historic results, the public knows that at the end of the day, it will decide: Not parliamentary maneuvering, not chance, but rather the nation will decide, and I have faith in the Israeli people. I think that Israel is a wise, intelligent nation, and I'm convinced that if we present an agreement, it will pass."
Earlier in the day, Defense Minister Ehud Barak attacked the law, saying it "chains the hands of the government." He added, "I don't think this law is urgent or pressing," saying that it could "have uses for our opponents."
Speaking more generally of the peace process, he said, "We have no choice but to separate from the Palestinians, it's the only way to ensure the future of Zionism."
Knesset Speaker Reuven Rivlin added his view, saying that the Knesset's image has deteriorated, in part because of Knesset members' behavior.
"The Knesset is the most important place for making decisions," Rivlin said at a conference in Acre, and this law prevents the Knesset from doing so. However, he added, "the [current] Knesset is like a sick bed that people with impressive military or civilian records would not want to get into,"
"This Knesset is completely average... and it is clear that some of the Knesset members earned this image," he said
Also on Tuesday, Labor MK Eitan Cabel voiced similar sentiments, telling Israel Radio that the law prevents the Knesset from making decisions.
Yes, it's sad that this law is necessary, but this law is necessary. The Knesset is a joke, whose members are answerable only to their parties and not to the public that elected them. Sometimes, if they don't get along with the party, they leave and form their own party.
Perhaps the most apocryphal story in this regard is that of Alex Goldfarb and Gonen Segev, two weasels who left the Right wing Tzomet party in the middle of a Knesset session, and provided the 61-59 margin of 'victory' by which Oslo II was passed in 1995. That incident - which has never been condemned by the Knesset as a whole, and which typifies Knesset behavior - is in the back of everyone's minds when you hear of a referendum requirement. That incident reminds all of us that
the Knesset cannot be trusted with the country's affairs.
But the ratification by only one vote did not even represent a majority. For, as then-President Ezer Weizmann (who supported Oslo) noted: "The agreement is not an agreement. It passed the Knesset by a majority of one and this would not have succeeded if not for one MK and his Mitsubishi." (A reference to vote thief Alex Goldfarb, former member of the Tzomet Party, who now backs the Labor Party to maintain his Deputy Ministerial position and his government automobile.)
Unfortunately, in typical Israeli fashion, the ensuing debate over Weizmann's words did not center around whether they were right but whether he had a right to say them.
Here's another account: Gonen Segev emblazoned his name forever in the annals of infamy back at the time of the Knesset’s vote on the Oslo II agreement in October 1995. He was elected to the Knesset in 1992 on the ticket of the Tsomet Party—a hawkish party to the right of Likud that became thoroughly anti-Oslo as the “process” emerged. But Gonen and his sidekick Alex Goldfarb bolted Tsomet, joined Labor, and cast the two votes that enabled Oslo II to squeak past by a margin of 61-59. For the citizens’ votes that they’d bargained away, Segev and Goldfarb were each rewarded, it was commonly understood, with a cabinet post and a new car by the Rabin-Peres Labor Party.
In other words, except for that glitch of corruption the Oslo II agreement would have been rejected by the elected representatives of the Israeli people (especially the Jewish representatives, among whom the anti-agreement margin was wide even after Segev and Goldfarb’s treachery). But, rather than refusing to make further concessions to the genocidal Palestinian Authority or for that matter dismantling it, the “process” moved on, taking its toll of blood ....
What's amazing about this law is that the egomaniacs in the Knesset actually voted to put the decision to the people. Perhaps they realize that they too are susceptible to bribery. In fact, in Netanyahu's case, I think it will give him more latitude to negotiate with the 'Palestinians' because he believes that if he makes too bad a deal, the country will reject it. Netanyahu is right about one thing though - if the deal is good enough it ought to pass and the referendum ought not to be an obstacle.
Labels: Golan Heights, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, referendum law
