posted by Carl in Jerusalem @ 4:15 AM
I am an Orthodox Jew - some would even call me 'ultra-Orthodox.' Born in Boston, I was a corporate and securities attorney in New York City for seven years before making aliya to Israel in 1991 (I don't look it but I really am that old :-). I have been happily married to the same woman for thirty-five years, and we have eight children (bli ayin hara) ranging in age from 13 to 33 years and nine grandchildren. Four of our children are married! Before I started blogging I was a heavy contributor on a number of email lists and ran an email list called the Matzav from 2000-2004. You can contact me at: IsraelMatzav at gmail dot com
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10 Comments:
Carl, you're absolutely right. Btw, O-bow-ma also did not bow to Queen Elizabeth. Funny how his hip pivot works; any bets on what he'll do when he meets with the mullahs?
Except for when they did:
"On June 8, 1967 — 42 years ago Monday — the flag flew over his Navy spy ship, USS Liberty, as it came under assault from an unlikely antagonist — the state of Israel that unexpectedly turned its weaponry on America at the height of the Six-Day War against Egypt."
But, you're probably right that he won't bow to Netanyahu, becuase its not really a custom in Israel is it...
Anything to hate on the president.
The bow Obama is using is a standard sign of respect for an elder or a businessman in a higher position.
Bowing to the Emperor of Japan, who is our ally, is usual, respectful and has been done by every President since the war ended.
Read some history.
because Israel didn’t murder Americans
USS Liberty!!
Facts are stubborn things, aren't they? I wonder what the cockpit chatter from that action contained? A US Navy ship with the US flag displayed, repeatedy attacked for an hour, with cannon fire, torpedoes, and napalm? That's pretty hard to see as friendly fire.
Re the Liberty and "progressive crank"
All the evidence, and the many investigations of the Liberty incident point to one conclusion --friendly fire.
And there's no need to wonder about the "cockpit chatter" -- the transcripts have been released and were checked against the tapes by outside investigators. The full transcripts have been published by Jay Cristol in his book "The Liberty Incident," and were also used in a (British) Thames Television documentary on the attack.
The tapes are consistent with the rest of the evidence -- the attack on the USS Liberty was a tragic mistake.
Just like the tragic mistakes the US made during the first Gulf War. Of the 24 British soldiers who were killed in that war, 9 died in daylight attacks in the open desert carried out US A-10 pilots. How could our pilots mistake the British Warrior APC's for Soviet-supplied Iraqi BMP's?
If you think the Liberty was attacked intentionally, do you think we attacked the British troops intentionally? If not, why not? We had far more advanced IFF than was available in 1967. So by your logic we must have intended to kill those British soldiers.
Or maybe it was the fog of war, just like 1967.
Alexs,
Did we attack British troops repeatedly for over an hour?
Probably would be piling on for me to post this.
But that's me all over.
Alexs,
Perhaps you should take a look at the huge American flag that hung off the stern of the USS Liberty with the countless shell holes that ripped it to shreds...the one the Israeli forces claimed not to see. The captain of the USS Liberty got the Congressional Medal of Honor for fighting off overwhelming odds and bringing the ship to safety...funny how that's never happened before with "friendly fire" incidents, ever.
It was an obvious attempt at a false flag operation by Israel to force the Americans into the war against Egypt had Israel succeeded in destroying the USS Liberty. Americans were killed by Israel, but President Obama won't be bowing to a right wing thug like Netanyahu anytime soon regardless.
Wilson:
The Liberty's flag was hanging down in light breezes (as confirmed by weather reports), and in any event at the speed and distances involved, the flag was far from "huge" to the attackers.
Just like the British ID panels on their Warrior APC's were not seen by our A-10 pilots in the Gulf War.
As for a "false flag" operation, why then were the Israeli planes marked as Israeli, as verified by crewmembers?
Foe example, Signalman Russell David testified that he saw Israeli insignia on the attacking jets and reported this to the Captain.
And if the Israelis wanted to sink the ship, why were the attacking planes not armed with anti-ship ordnance? Nobody wanting to sink a ship would attack with napalm.
The Israelis had destroyed the Egyptian army, and were in the process of driving Jordan from the West Bank. Does anyone seriously believe that had they planned to sink a slow, virtually unarmed ship, they would have failed to do so?
They did fail because they had no plans to attack the ship, improvised an attack, then called it off when they thought it was a Soviet ship. Only later did they realize it was a US ship.
Finally, considering how well the Israelis were doing, why would they want the US to enter the war against Egypt? And why would they risk attacking their only ally? (Their main arms suppliers, Britain and France, switched sides before the war.)
And in response to pastor maker, the US attack on the British, from initial observation by F-16's to the attack by A-10's, took about 15 minutes. By then the British Warriors had been destroyed, so why continue the attack?
Since we didn't find out the victims were British till the next day, do you doubt that the attack would have lasted as long as necessary to destroy the targets?
So the relative length of the attacks proves nothing.
I ask again, why is the attack against the Liberty intentional, but not our attack against the British Warrior APC's?
And not just the British Warriors. What about our attack against the Iranian Airbus?
Was that also intentional? Did we mean to kill 290 civilians, including 66 children? Or did the crew of the USS Vincennes make a tragic, though inexplicable, error, mistaking a civilian Airbus for an Iranian F-14 in attack mode?
The fog of war always claims its victims, whether it's the USS Liberty, or the Iranian Airbus, or the British Warrior crewmen, or even Pat Tillman.
It's as simple and tragic as that.
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