Labels: Egypt, Muslim anti-Semitism
posted by Carl in Jerusalem @ 2:44 PM
I am an Orthodox Jew - some would even call me 'ultra-Orthodox.' Born in Boston, I was a corporate and securities attorney in New York City for seven years before making aliya to Israel in 1991 (I don't look it but I really am that old :-). I have been happily married to the same woman for thirty-five years, and we have eight children (bli ayin hara) ranging in age from 13 to 33 years and nine grandchildren. Four of our children are married! Before I started blogging I was a heavy contributor on a number of email lists and ran an email list called the Matzav from 2000-2004. You can contact me at: IsraelMatzav at gmail dot com
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6 Comments:
No, I did not claim the Hadeeth did not exist.
I said that PMW or you, misreported that Hadeeth and said that it was the duty of Muslims to kill Jews, and they didn't report that it is a prophecy and we're forbidden to do anything to hasten or create circumstances to fulfill a prophecy. Only God does that.
Some believe that the prophecy is being lived today.
Does anyone know if the settlements grow gharqad trees?
Chayma,
You didn't say that? Well, let me quote what you said and we can let the readers decide (emphasis added):
"Thank you Youtube, for removing this slanderous and distorted by PMW video.
"There is no hadith which states, "The Muslims destiny is to kill Jews".
"If there were, there would no Jew alive today, that task could have been acomplished easily when history witnessed it's most spectacular conquests.
"Empires and nations fell like skittles before the might of Islam :)"
Further comments from others invited.
CiJ shows video where a Muslim cleric quotes the Koran, a quote which says it's the destiny of Muslims to kill all the Jews. CiJ notes that this particular quote from the Koran is being repeated weekly all over the Muslim world.
Chayma responds, no, there is no hadith that promises a Muslim "destiny" to kill all Jews, only a Muslim "prophecy" that they will kill all the Jews. No explanation is given as to how a destiny is supposed to be different from a prophecy.
Realizing that most people might consider this an example of a poorly considered argument, she makes the claim that no Muslim would even hope for such a prophecy to come true, let alone try to bring it about. All this is predicated on her statement that the hadith is just a harmless prophecy.
But then, in the comments above, she says that many feel that this prophecy is now coming to fruition! Doesn't this mean that you would have to recant your statement about the hadith being misquoted? After all, Muslims agree that you should not deny an Islamic Prophecy while it's being fulfilled, right?
Is there a split in the Islamic world Chayma? Are you against this feeling that the Hadith is being fulfilled? Are you going to stand with the "good" Muslims who rise in defense of the Jews and "real" Islamic principles, or will you stand with the "evil" Muslims who keep repeating this hadith, and obviously want it to be true?
Ais Cotton
No explanation is given as to how a destiny is supposed to be different from a prophecy.
It is NOT our destiny to kill Jews or anyone. Our destiny is to live as God wanted us to live, and spread his word. Not to kill God's creation.
Since we are forbidden to attack those who do not attack us (war can only be defensive) if Muslims ever fight Jews it can only be in self defense. Thus is stands to reason that when this prophecy comes to pass, it can only be AFTER Jews attack us not the other way round.
If we sin we are punished.
The reason some think this prophecy is coming to fruitition now is becase Palestinians are resisting an occupation. Do you deny the horror of the IDF crimes, the settlers, and others? The million or so uprooted Palestinians?
Don't your own extremists cite prophecies of destruction and bloodshed (Rabbi Lior comes to mind) and what Jews should do to retaliate?
Some believe this Hadeeth is a figurative one, some believe it is an allegory, some believe it came to pass during the Prophets day, when some of the Jewish tribes attacked the fledgling faith when their power was eroding. Some believe it has yet to come to pass.
What is certain is that whenever it comes to pass, Muslims will not be the first to attack Jews, and the war will be defensive. If that were not so, and it was our 'destiny' to kill Jews we could have done that during the 1000 year old Caliphate.
Ais Cotton, I do not support the killing of Jews, nor the repeating of this Hadeeth which can be inciting to someone who has lost their homes and sees no hope. It inspires violence which is not the solution, it's wrong and immoral.
However, just as Dov Lior pronounces death sentences using prophecies because he sees death and destruction around him, so do Palestinians and obviously their allies.
Zionism is not seen the same as a secure Israel in much of the world. The reason Israel is opposed is because so many believe Zionism means Jews want to uproot everyone who is not Jewish and either kill them or expel them from all territory from 'the river to the sea'.
It doesn't help that you have extremists and kahanists (like Carl) who support that.
When God gave you the land, he didn't give you a license to uproot and make homeless people living there, nor to discriminate nor make life difficult for them.
Zionism as practiced by the Israeli right wing is evil, unless it reforms it's doomed.
You're mistaken if you think God would support this.
Chayma, your response to me suggesting that the hadith against the JEWS could be considered a legitimate response to ZIONIST actions crosses a line I know you are very well aware of. However, I'm going to ignore all that because I think there is a more pertinent issue here.
When I read your comments (here and previously) I am struck by the fact that it's become a core belief in Islam (and for you apparently) that the Jews are eternally "disowned" by God. It is a part of the Islamic narrative that the Jews are too evil to be God's chosen people. This comes through in your writing as clear as I've ever seen in an Islamist's writing. But there's a problem inherent in this worldview, which I am sure you are aware of.
The restoration of Israel is a clear threat to the claim that Islam is the one true faith. Judaism is all of sudden on the map again. I'll bet our successes are probably infuriating to you because they fly in the face of your twisted brainwashed worldview! Therefore, I know that you will continue to explain away all the hate emanating from the Islamic world, as I understand that this hatred is synonymous with your very identity as a Muslim.
You asked me a few questions I know you already know the answer too. I will however respond to one comment you made:
"When God gave you the land..."
That's right Chayma, He did.
Ais Cotton
It is a part of the Islamic narrative that the Jews are too evil to be God's chosen people.
Chosen for what?
1. To spread Islamophobia?
2. To uproot people living on land we held for over 1000 years?
Being chosen doesn’t mean you won’t put a foot wrong, or make mistakes. For which you’ll be punished. You were chosen to keep the Torah that God gave, that's what the Quran tells us. It doesn't tell us anything about uprooting people and us accepting it, or to keep quiet when Islamophobes try to destroy our faith.
As for the rest of your comments, you exhibit total ignorance of Islamic beliefs. Like everyone else here.
What I will tell you, is that we are commanded to fight the enemies of the faith. The zionist right wing is active in every sphere of life in promoting Islam and Muslim hatred. The Jewish tribes in Medina and the Crusaders tried that, and you saw their fate. It was all foretold.
Enemies of the faith will always fall, so it was as God said to us, so it was as history has proven and so it shall be.
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