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Sunday, May 20, 2012

Dr. Wafa Sultan exposes Islamic values with Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad

Dr. Wafa Sultan, a remarkably courageous and thoughtful Muslim freethinker, recently debated Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad. Dr. Sultan watched passively while the good Sheik expressed without equivocation his pious views—in full accord with classical, mainstream Islamic doctrine on jihad —and then politely added her own plain spoken commentary in response.

This less than 8-minute video segment, if viewed objectively and dispassionately, could do more to educate the American public on the theory animating the practice of “Islamic international relations,” without any further explanation required.

Let's go to the videotape (Hat Tip: Dan F via andrewbostom.org:).

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At 2:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ignorant bumpkin,

Wafa Sultan is an Alewite, not a Muslim. They are rejected by Islam, that's why she and they suffer from Fatal Attraction Syndrome, much like you do, regarding Egypt and Turkey now that they have the good sense to revoke the 'peace' (traitorship) of their predecessors.

At 4:42 PM, Blogger Penguin Lover said...

It doesnt matter what Dr. Sultan said or whether she was an alawite, a sunni or a christian. Just listen to Sheikh Muhamad. Islam is a religion of violence intent on spreading itself worldwide where rights for non-Muslims are conditional on accepting inferior status to Muslims. If they choose to not accept such status, then Islam insists on fighting them.

At 5:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stupid muslima biatch Chayma:

"Pay no attention to that man wearing the curtain!"

At 8:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


The man wearing the curtain?? You mean Moses Maimonades?

Mishneh Torah, “The Laws of Kings and their Wars”:

Those who choose not to convert are not forced to, but all humans are required to accept "the seven Noahide laws" that the rabbis of the Talmud considered the minimal moral duties enjoined upon all humanity. These include the prohibition of idolatry. "Those who will not accept [the Noahide laws] are to be killed" (Mishneh Torah, "The Laws of Kings and their Wars" [henceforth, Kings] 8:10).

Maimonides' systemization includes universalization, which for the first time allowed for expanding the application of holy war beyond the borders of the Land of Israel. An Israelite king may conquer any and all lands he wishes because "his acts are for the sake of heaven since his goal and design is to strengthen the true religion, fill the world with righteousness, destroy the seed of the wicked, and fight God's wars" (Kings 4:10). The Mishneh Torah contains aggressive rhetoric with regard to this issue, but this is toned down in Maimonides' great philosophic opus, The Guide for the Perplexed [henceforth, Guide], 1:36, 54; 3:29, 37,41, 52. Gerald Blidstein (1983, 3
221-222) has pointed out how Maimonides fluctuates between universal aggressiveness and restrained patience. While the king may conquer beyond the borders of the Land of Israel, he is never commanded (by God) to do so; but wherever the king conquers he is required to eradicate idolatry.

The purpose of conquest and enforcing the Noahide laws is not to bring converts to Judaism, but rather to prevent the endangering of humankind through anarchy and violence.

At 9:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


Therefore, my request in the name of the Torah is here before you, the Torah of Truth. In the name of the multitudes of Israel who suffer the disgrace of being slaves in their own land, enslaved to the foreign laws and cultures, we beseech you to investigate this matter, make a true Torah decision, and publicize the word of G-d to the multitudes. I would like to suggest, with your permission, several sources connected to the matter:

In the Laws of Kings in Rambam, (chapter 9, halacha 14): a goy that transgressed one of the seven Noahide laws will be put to death by the sword. For this reason, all the residents of Shechem were condemned to die. Schechem stole and the people saw, knew and did not judge him.

The Rambam (Genesis 34:13) held: "because the people of Shechem were evil, the children of Jacob wanted to avenge with the sword of vengeance, so they killed the king and all his people for they were his servants and fulfilled his orders."

The Rambam in the Laws of the Murderer, (chapter 2, halacha 10) wrote: "a Jew who kills a resident stranger cannot be killed by the court and it is needless to say that he is not killed for killing the goy."

The Minchat Chinuch in commandment 32, Do Not Murder, wrote: "the one who kills even a resident stranger who accepted the Noahide laws would not be put to death ... since we donot accept resident strangers now ... he is considered like any goy. Even in the time of the Holy Temple we are not accustomed to accept to accept the resident stranger."

For sake of the honor of G-d, the honor of the honor of Israel, please fulfill your obligation in this generation as the great Rabbis did in every generation and sanctify G-d's name with a true and just decision according to our Holy Torah. And G-d will atone for the false judgment of the State of Israel and will put in the hearts of the people in power to return to the Torah of their fathers, the Torah of truth and justice, Amen!

With expectation to receive your speedy decision.
With great awe before the glory of your Torah.

Moshe Tsvi Segal

At 9:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Obligation of Jews to Seek Observance of Noachide[1] Laws by Gentiles: A Theoretical Review
by Rabbi Michael J. Broyde[*]
. The Obligation to Compel Observance

A. Maimonides' Approach

A simple reading of the rules of Maimonides' would indicate that Jews or a Jewish court are obligated in (at the minimum) coercing Noachides to observe their laws. Such is not the only way, however, to interpret Maimonides' statements. Maharatz Chayut in his responsa[73] seems to adopt a formulation of Maimonides ruling that makes this law a mere historical recounting of facts. He states (quoting the Rashbash[74]):

Sanhedren 56b recounts that the Jews were commanded in ten commandments at Marah[75]; these ten commandments were the seven laws of Noah, the Sabbath laws, dinim, and respect for one's parents. Why did the Jews need to be commanded again [on the seven Noachide laws] since Jews were already commanded from the time of Adam and Noah...Since we conclude that commandments that were given prior to Sinai to Noachides, and not repeated at Sinai, are obligatory only for Jews, the seven commandments had to be repeated at Sinai to obligate Noachides.[76] Based on this Rashbash, the assertion of Maimonides that "Moses, our teacher, only willed Torah and mitzvot to the Jewish people, since it states 'An inheritance to the community of Jacob.'" ...[77] and his assertion that 'Moses our teacher was commanded by God to compel the commandments obligatory to the children of Noah' appear logical. Why was Moses also the messenger to the rest of the world to compel observance of the seven commandments, perhaps they are obligated by Adam or Noach? Rather we see that Moses being commanded at Marah on the seven Noachide commandments, even though Gentiles were already commanded, was done to make Noachides obligated in the mitzvot even now.


However, all of these explanations of Maimonides' ruling are difficult and the simple understanding of Maimonides is that (at the least) a person that is capable of forcing compliance, must. Indeed, while Rabbi Karo does appear to limit the application of Maimonides somewhat, he clearly understands Maimonides as requiring compulsion whenever possible, even by an individual.[85] This is similarly understood to be the opinion of Maimonides by Tzafnach Panaich, in his lengthy discussion on this topic.[86] A ruling similar to Maimonides' is found in Chinuch 192, where it states:

The rule is as follows: In all that the nations are commanded, any time they are under our jurisdiction, it is incumbent upon us to judge them when they violate the commandments.

At 10:08 PM, Blogger Captain.H said...

It'd be accurate to say Dr. Sultan is an ex-Muslim. She's a passionately courageous woman, very articulate and intelligent, whom I along with many others, greatly admire.

And, yes, Penguin Lover has an excellent point. Most importantly, Sheikh Muhamad described Islam simply, clearly, accurately. Dr. Sultan agreed that he had done so.

As for me, I'll take Western Civilization, with it's Judeo-Christian moral and spiritual foundation. Others are free, if they so desire, to choose a society based on 7th century Arabian barbarism.

One very quick, illustrative way of summarizing the difference: Israel, the ancient homeland of the Jewish people, a tiny Jewish Western Civilization state with only about 7 million people, has in it's 64 years of formal restoration, independence, seen it's citizens win or co-win 12 or so Nobel Prizes in science, technology, medicine.

Which is precisely 12 or so more Nobel Prizes than have been awarded to any Muslim scientists in any Muslim country. That's twelve from a nation of 7 million people versus none from the billion plus population Muslim world. It would behoove everyone, especially Arab and non-Arab Muslims, to ask WHY?

This is "not counting the b*llsh*t "Peace Prize", as Pat Condell put it. Nor does it count the other Nobel Prizes won or co-won by Jewish scientists, doctors in Diaspora countries.

Dr. Jonas Salk immediately comes to mind. His discovery of a polio vaccine in the 1950s has saved millions and millions of people worldwide from suffering that terrible disease, and was instrumental in almost eliminating polio in the world.

Almost, except in Pakistan an Afghanistan, where many imams in recent years have told their flocks not to allow their children to be vaccinated. It's a Western evil plot to poison Muslim children, you see. In those two areas, polio has re-emerged, claiming thousands of child victims. Again, a "WHY?" to this tragedy is demanded from Arabs and Muslims.

There you have it. Dr. Salk and his advancement of medicine, benefiting all humanity versus Pakistan and Afghan imams preaching superstition.

I say all this and I'm not even Jewish, but a Christian, some would say an evangelical Christian. I believe all of humanity are brothers and sisters in God's family, nevertheless all the above is true. All of humanity have the same in-born levels of mental capacity and potential. Arabs and Muslims in general could hugely benefit from serious, honest introspection of the above. They need to honestly ask and answer the WHY.

At 11:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

CaptH obvioulsy is a typically ignorant of history bumpkin. In 1400 years Muslims gifted humanity more than any other nation and he uses Nobel prizes which have been around for how long? Perhaps he should be asking what has Christianity given the world besides murder, bloodshed, and crusades? I wonder why he is counting Jewish Nobel prizes instead of Christian ones? Jews have Torah., idiot. By the way what does Judaism tell about the fate of Christianity?

The secret of Islam’s success is the Quran.

We are blessed like no other,

Which is precisely 12 or so more Nobel Prizes than have been awarded to any Muslim scientists in any Muslim country. That's twelve from a nation of 7 million people versus none from the billion plus population Muslim world. It would behoove everyone, especially Arab and non-Arab Muslims, to ask WHY?

I could answer that, but it would be beyond your comprehension, Islamic prophecies are beyond your comprehension. Suffice to say, this period will end, it was foretold and it’s why God put all the oil under Muslim feet to tide us over the punishment.

Your Armeggedon prophecies have always failed, but ours never do. Study them, you’ll be stunned at their accuracy.

At 11:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...



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At 12:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

CaptH, about your crumbs..the Nobel prizes, compare and weep..even if we did nothing for the next 5000 years, noone could beat this, that's why Mohammed (Abrahams' greatest son) is the most influential man in history.

You are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind;

How Islam has kept us out of the 'Dark Ages'

R. Briffault: The Making of Humanity.
"The Miracle of Arabic science, using the word miracle as a symbol of our inability to explain achievements which were almost incredible...unparalleled in the history of the world."

"There is not a single aspect of European growth in which the decisive influence of Islamic civilization is not traceable"

"It is highly probable that but for the Arabs modern European civilisation would never have arisen at all; it is absolutely certain that but for them, it would not have assumed that character which has enabled it to transcend all previous phases of evolution."
French historian, Gustave Ie Bon, writes of the Arab contribution to Modern Europe:

Observation, experimentation and inductive logic which form the fundamentals of modern knowledge are attributed to Roger Bacon but it needs to be acknowledged that this process of reasoning was entirely an Arab discovery.

The French philosopher Gustave le Bon stated in his book The Civilization of the Arabs:

? We must bear in mind that the Arabs ? and the Arabs alone ? are the ones who guided us to the ancient world of the Greeks and Romans. European universities, including the University of Paris, based their curricula on translations of their books for six hundred years and used their methods of research. The Islamic civilization was one of the most amazing that history has ever known. ?.


H. G. Wells says in his book Milestones in Human History:

“They advanced in medicine far beyond the Greeks, they studied science and the functions of various parts of the body, and preventative medicine. Many of the treatment methods that they used are still used by us until today.
They used anaesthetics for their operations and they used to perform some of the most difficult surgeries that are known. “

“Every religion that is not suited to civilization should be rejected. I have not found any religion that is suited to civilization except Islam. “


Bertrand Russel in ‘History of Western Philosophy,’ London, 1948, p. 419.
"From India to Spain, the brilliant civilization of Islam flourished. What was lost to christendom at this time was not lost to civilization, but quite the contrary...
"To us it seems that West-European civilization is civilization, but this is a narrow view."

Phillip Hitti in 'Short History of the Arabs.'
"During all the first part of the Middle Ages, no other people made as important a contribution to human progress as did the Arabs, if we take this term to mean all those whose mother-tongue was Arabic, and not merely those living in the Arabian peninsula. For centuries, Arabic was the language of learning, culture and intellectual progress for the whole of the civilized world with the exception of the Far East. From the IXth to the XIIth century there were more philosophical, medical, historical, religiuos, astronomical and geographical works written in Arabic than in any other human tongue."
Dwight D. Eisenhower dedicated the Islamic Center in Washington, D.C., in June 1957, his 500-word talk effused good will ("Civilization owes to the Islamic world some of its most important tools and achievements")

At 5:41 AM, Blogger adilkahir said...

Haha. Chayma wants to compare Islam to Judaism, a religion that has spent the past 2000 years figuring out a way to coexist and live with the more powerful gentiles around them. Let's remember, Islam is a religion that has been the religion of the conqueror for the past 1300 years that has only recently started to experience being a minority in a country where it is not the ruling faith, and it is pretty unsuccessful in doing that considering that there are problems everywhere Muslims are a minority.

Just watch the video. What the Sheikh says is exactly how the vast majority of Muslims see the world. Everything that Chayma posts is just usual Islamic apologetics when faced with unpleasant truths. Rather than actually arguing against the points made about Islam, its apologists, point elsewhere.

Notice that Chayma hasn't bothered to actually refute any points made in the video. It is because she can't. The Sheikh was just being honest and Chayma knows it sounds unpleasant to Western ears.

At 7:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wot? No reply, Shyguy?

I'm kind of puzzled as to what exactly you objected to..that he didn't call for the worldwide genocide of idolators a la Maimonades or going further back, Joshua?

What exactly were you whinging about? and tell me why isn't Wafa Sultan whoring herself to idolators, warning them of Law of Kings?

What? Zionists are good pimps?

Enquiring minds await answers.

At 7:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

AdilKahir, you are deluded and ignorant, and as for this:

Chayma posts is just usual Islamic apologetics when faced with unpleasant truths.

What unpleasant truths? I'm proud of my religion, i love being Muslim.

The greatest of conquererors came from us.

The earth was created for the Muslim. It's all ours, AdilKahir, all ours.

What the sheikh forgot to say was that a day will come when every heart mind and soul will know the One God, every knee will bow to the creator...and it will be because of the Muslim.


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