Bernard Henri Levy rips Turkish PM Erdogan
Why do you think that Erdogan mentioned you by name and held you responsible for the overthrow of the government in Egypt?
He's out of his mind. He's come unhinged, flipped out. Sorry, but in France, in the United States, people can't stop laughing.
Do you have the power to do that? Is there anybody in the world powerful enough to change the government of another country?
Of course not! That's what makes this business so grotesque. It's a classic scenario. You're faced with a situation that you don't understand. You've lost your grip on the tiller. You've also lost a client, the Muslim Brotherhood, on which you had bet heavily and for which you had great ambitions. And boom, in the panic, you look for a simple explanation. A diabolical one. And in the category of "the devil's work" no one has ever found better than the indestructible "Protocols of the Elders of Zion," which, I remind you, has been a bestseller under Mr. Erdogan's regime. Pathetic.
Nevertheless, they say that Israel is backing the military ...
Maybe, I don't really know. But Israel is Israel, and I'm me. And Erdogan's stupid attack came on the same day that a column of mine appeared in various papers in Europe and elsewhere in which I said how horrified I was at the bloodbath that Cairo had become.
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So we're in agreement: You said that democracy was not only a question of ballot boxes?
It was an open, live discussion of the sort I engage in everywhere, all the time, and would one day like to have in Istanbul, fielding questions from the audience. So obviously I don't recall my exact words. But, yes, I believe that democracy is more than elections alone; it is also a set of values, foremost among which are the freedom of thought, the plurality of opinion, secularity, and respect for the rule of law.
Are elections indispensable to democracy? What is indispensable to democracy?
There is no democracy without elections, of course. But I repeat: Democracy is also an open and pluralistic society, respect for individual freedom, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, and freedom of lifestyle. It is also the resolution of conflicts, class conflicts in particular, through law. It is a nonpartisan and secular civil service. Last but not least, democracy requires respect by the ruling party for the opposition and minorities. Is there anything on the list I've just given you that you recognize as dear to the Muslim Brotherhood?
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Is there a relation between your Judaism and your antipathy for the Muslim Brotherhood?
I am indeed Jewish, profoundly so. But at the risk of disappointing you, I do not believe that this is the source of my antipathy. Are you aware of the history of the Muslim Brotherhood? Its origins? The organization was founded in 1928 as a sort of Arab version of Nazism. It is widely assumed that Nazism was an exclusively European phenomenon. Not true. There was also an Arab Nazism, embodied at the time by the first Muslim Brothers, those of Hassan al-Banaa. Much water has spilled over the dam since then, of course. And today's Muslim Brothers are not the same as those of the 1930s. But for me, their origin is a sufficient reason to mistrust them.
What is your assessment of the turmoil in the Muslim world? And do you think the Muslim countries are as united as they should be?
Why should they be "united"? Is it that one must be for "unity" at any price? The Muslim world consists of at least three civilizations: Arab, Persian, and Ottoman. And it harbors at least two great political aspirations, the aspiration, first, toward peace, democracy, and human rights; the second the temptation of obscurantism. Is it really desirable, under the pretext of "unity," to mix all that together? Do the Turks want to let the AKP tie them up in petty rules in order to present a united front against a world that a paranoid leader sees as uniformly hostile? In Turkey, as in Iran and Egypt, I believe in the salutary power of division--that is, of political difference--and I believe in the long-term victory of secular forces and of the spirit of enlightenment and progress.
After this affair and these allegations will it be possible for Israel and Turkey to work together again?
Yes, of course. Relations between two great countries don't hinge on fits of temper or minor quarrels.
There were negotiations after the Mavi Marmara incident, but nothing was resolved.
Yes. Because of Erdogan. And despite the fact that Shimon Peres apologized the day after. No, believe me, and excuse me for putting this so bluntly: You Turks have a real Erdogan problem. If Turkey is going to resume normal relations with its natural partners--which is to say, with the democracies and with Israel in particular--it's going to have to turn the page on Erdogan.
Do you have ties with the Israeli intelligence service?
Is that a joke? Or are you serious?
Some here wonder.
The same people who prosecuted individuals like Orhan Pamuk and Elif Safak, who assassinated the great Hrant Dink on the pretext that he was a traitor to his country. In Turkey, as elsewhere, there are idiots who can't quite understand the idea that there may be such a thing as free and independent thinkers. I'm one of them. And, in that capacity, I defend Israel's right to exist, but also the right of the Palestinians to a state of their own. I fight against anti-Semitism in my own country, but I also founded SOS Racisme. I struggle against Le Pen in France, but it was in Libya, alongside the Libyan revolutionaries, that I put my life on the line.
Not to mention my time in Bangladesh in 1971 or my love for Afghanistan. Nor the years I spent in defense of Bosnia, which have just earned me--and I'm very proud of this--the title of honorary citizen of the city of Sarajevo. Nor the most recent position I have taken (which Mr. Erdogan ignores but which I invite him to consider), where, despite my distaste for the Muslim Brotherhood, I have stood up against the carnage being wrought as we speak by the Egyptian military government.
Read the whole thing.
Labels: Egyptian Revolution, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkish obsession with Israel
posted by Carl in Jerusalem @ 6:31 PM
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