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Wednesday, April 02, 2008

Kos bans Zionist American for asking if there was ever a 'Palestine'

Markos "Screw Them" Moulitsas has banned the poster known as Zionist American from his leftist blog, Daily Kos. Zionist American's 'crime' was posting a diary that asked "Was there ever a 'Palestine'?" The picture at the top of this post is a screen capture of Zionist American's diary, but on the off chance that it gets erased, I will produce the entire post below. Zionist American received no notice that she had been banned, but she is not able to post anymore at DKos. Somehow, I doubt she will miss it. Here's what got her banned.

Was there ever a 'Palestine'?

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:25:14 PM PDT

I have seen on Daily Kos many people argue that there was a 'Nakba' on May 14, 1948, whereby innocent Palestinians had to flee from the evil Zionist invaders. In order to address this notion, it first is necessary to examine whether there ever was a 'Palestine,' where this 'Palestinian ethnicity' came from, and who the Palestinian leadership was in 1948.

Was there ever a 'Palestine'?

The truth is there never was a 'Palestine' as such, with any form of independence and sovereignty. The history of Israel is as follows:

  1. Canaanite tribes (not a state)
  1. State of Israel; first holy temple source
  1. Babylonians take over
  1. Persians take over and allow Jews to move back to Israel and rebuild the second holy temple; this forms a province within the Persian kingdom (see: Cyrus)
  1. Greeks take over; Jews still given the ability to rule as a province within the Greek Empire, though Salucids at one time try to convert all Jews (see: story of Chanukah)
  1. Romans take over Greeks; Jews still have limited self rule and King Herod greatly improves and increases the size of the Temple. However, Jews revolt, wanting more self rule and the end to taxation. (they were treated as a colony) The 'Bar Kochba' revolt led to total tragedy, estimates of at least a million Jews killed, and the forced Diaspora of Jews. Rome renames Judea to 'Palestina,' which was the name of the enemy of the Jews. The hope was to wipe the very existence of Judea off the face of the map. The earth is salted, and the region is totally sacked and destroyed. Later this area becomes known as part of Byzantium.
  1. Arabs take over as part of the Caliphate. source
  1. Crusaders take over from Arabs; independent 'Palestinian' state for the first time since the Ancient kingdom of Israel. source
  1. Saladin wins war against Crusaders. The area of Israel becomes part of the Ayyubid Kurdish dynasty. source
  1. Ottomans take over from Ayyubids. source
  1. British take over from Ottomans. source

You will see, throughout this, that there simply was not an independent 'Palestine' prior to Israel's formation since the time of the Crusaders.

Then.

Israel formed on May 14, 1948 via a UN vote. This is well known. What is not well known is that the local Arabs were also offered a state (which they never previously had, as was just illustrated), (source) and rejected it. Ten Arab states declared war on Israel the very day it was formed, but Israel was victorious, despite all odds. What also is not well known is that the Palestinian leadership was the one who encouraged this war against the fledgling Jewish state, Haj Amin Al Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. This very man also was an architect of Hitler's Final Solution. (source) It was he who encouraged the riots against Jewish and women and children in Hebron. It was he who attempted to prevent any Jew from lawfully immigrating to Israel, even as they were facing death and destruction in Europe. He was the indisputed leader of the local Arabs.

I present to you the notion that the 'nakba' for Arabs was self induced; Arabs declared war on Israel, and they lost the war. Israel had no intention of pushing any Arabs out, and in fact Israeli Arabs have 100% equal citizenship with Jews. This 'nakba' that occurred was thus due to the depraved actions of the Arab leadership, and the local Arabs had to suffer for the sins of their leaders, in the same way that Germans had to suffer for the sins of their Nazi leaders. (and cannot relocate to the Sudetenland)

Local Arabs became this stateless nationality due to their leaders and not Israel and Jews.

UPDATE: For a good debunking of 'New Historians' who claim otherwise, read this

EDIT: I just want to say that I am not saying anything with regards to what should happen TODAY. I am simply saying that the Palestinians exist as they due to wars started by their Arab brethren. Any peaceful resolution MUST take that in mind and place the blame where it belongs. (and not with Israel)

Another edit: To sum up, there would be no 'nakba' were it not for the war started by the Arab League in 1948. There would be no 'occupation' if Israel did not have to fight for its very existence in 1967.

The 'occupation' exists due to the Arab League, and as such, if any compensation is given to Palestinians, the Arab League should pay.

Zionist American's post drew 342 comments. Here are some of the 'highlights.' (Please forgive the foul language).

Here's a tip. Find another place to stir your.... (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Christopher Day, rmx2630, corvo

shit pot.

ELECT LIBERAL PROGRESSIVES NOW!

by Hornito on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:30:20 PM PDT

The only irrefutable fact I can see (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Hornito, corvo, word player

is that you are a fucking moron.

Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. Edward R. Murrow

by Pager on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:58:56 PM PDT

The purpose of this diary is (8+ / 0-)

to provoke a fight so that later this guy can pull random quotes and cite them as proof that kos is anti-Israel. I beg everyone here to close this diary and never open any diaries by this diarist again and thereby defeat his reason for being here at all.

Be outrageous, ridicule the fraidy-cats, rejoice in all the oddities that freedom can produce. --Molly Ivins

by sap on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:43:54 PM PDT

ok, (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
corvo

i would also include that, just as the palestinian leadership does have both a political and a moral obligation to stop terrorism by its citizens, so too does the state of israel have a political and moral obligation to 1) prevent all its citizens from creating new settlements and 2) dismantle all the old ones.

"The issue of economics is something that I've really never understood as well as I should." - John McCain, Dec. 18, 2007

by jalonzo on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:43:13 PM PDT

False choice (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Tonedevil, lemming22, jalonzo

What is the Israeli gov't doing to protect the citizens of Sderot? Is it working?
Human shields and propoganda fodder. If they really cared about Sderot they would evacuate it until the crisis was over. But then they would lose all the footage of the PTSD sufferers.

Those who hear not the music-think the dancers mad

by Eiron on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:00:35 PM PDT

  • Yes, I think it does matter. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    JNEREBEL, dvo, dashound

    There are some folks who are trying to push the meme that Israel alone is responsible for this Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Clearly that is false.

    Palestine was never independent under the Ottomans. The Brits split it once into Jordan and Palestinian Mandate and then the UN split it into Israel and Palestine. Only the Arabs (Palestinians and their neighbors) attacked Israel and then occupied Gaza and the West Bank. IF the Arabs had not attacked, there would be a Palestine today. IF Jordan and Egypt had not occupied Gaza and the West Bank, there would be a Palestine today. If the Arabs had not given their famous three No's, there would be a Palestine today. If the Palestinians had ever once accepted a peace agreement, there would be a Palestine today.

    The Palestinians are getting ready to celebrate their 60th Nakba.. Disaster. Some one DKos have demanded we treat the Nakba like the Holocaust. As if the Palestinians have no responsibility for the current situation and no means to end it. As if the victims of the Holocaust were sending suicide bombers and rockets at civilians.

    Yes, it matters. The Palestinians bear responsibilty for this situation and they are continuing to make it worse. They use cartoon characters to teach their children to hate Jews.. not Israelis, not Zionists, but yehuds.. Jews.

    How did I live without him?

    by Pumpkinlove on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:09:36 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    • Of course you would jump right in on this... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      corvo

      inflammatory diary. Right up your alley, eh Pumpkin? What is your goal, and that of this diarist? To divide our community? Sure seems like it when I review the comments and diaries of both of you...

      ELECT LIBERAL PROGRESSIVES NOW!

      by Hornito on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:23:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • I see... so we aren't allowed our own opinion? (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        JNEREBEL

        What value have you added besides insulting people?

        How did I live without him?

        by Pumpkinlove on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:35:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • I've added value by pointing out........ (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          corvo

          trollish behavior on the part of this diarist and others. We do not need you, them, or anyone else trying to divide and inflame our community right now. Take your hate and war-mongering somewhere else.

          ELECT LIBERAL PROGRESSIVES NOW!

          by Hornito on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 04:00:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        • This type of shit makes me sick.. (14+ / 0-)

          Zionism is no better than Nazism or White Supremacy.. the advocacy of one race over another. I'm half Arab and half Black, I don't believe in Hamas' bullshit racist views, nor am I a Black Nationalist.. Why, because those are RACIST points of view..

          Diaries like this are no better than holocaust deniers like Pat Buchanan or Ahmadenijad. There was a Palestine, it existed for thousands of years. The Jews who live in Israel now are predominately first generation Israelis. They have a right to exist now, and live in peace, but not at the expense of the civil liberties of the Palestinian people. Either they should learn to co-exist as two separate and equal, completely sovereign nations (not likely) or Israel should simply adopt the single state solution.

          The reason Israel doesn't support the single state solution is because Zionist/Racists like you don't want Arabs in your country. Eretz Israel could exist, and most Palestinians are not opposed to becoming Israeli citizens. Even Yasser Arafat supported the single state solution.. It's the racists on both sides that oppose a single democratic state, because the hatred cuts both ways...

          Fuck Racism, Fuck Hamas, and Fuck Zionism, and fuck this diary.

        • Israel could adopt a real bill of rights (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          McGirk

          like ours, guaranteeing the rights of all individuals - minorities or not. But for them to create a country out of nowhere, move millions of people into refugee camps, and then deny them the right to return to their homes (which is basically surrendering to Israel - what other alternative is there?), that's genocide.

          The Palestinian people are being systematically wiped out over time. No one can defeat Israel.. No one.. The Arab nations cannot and should not oppose Israel because WTF would that accomplish? More bloodshed? And why would they? Egyptians and Syrians are not Palestinians.. These are not the same "people." Yet they get bunched into the term "Arab." It's really disingenuous.

          I'm not advocating the end of the Israeli state. I'm just saying many of Israeli's policies resemble South Africa's. You can't just forget about 4 million people that have been neatly tucked away into the Gaza strip and the West Bank.. This situation needs to be resolved and the two state solution just won't work. Gaza would not be a viable state, and Israel certainly wouldn't allow the two to be geographically connected..

          The only real solution, imho, is for the two people's to peacefully coexist in a democratic society that protected the rights of the minority. However, many Jews fear becoming a minority, and I can understand that. But should the United States, and progressive liberals in particular, support such a foreign policy that puts on race of people before another?

          I don't one Holocaust justifies another.

        • It is not (0+ / 0-)

          the Arab League that is starving and murdering Palestinians. It is the Israelis.

          Aided and abetted by US tax dollars.

          Israel has been the root cause of more US military deaths in the past thirty years than any other factor.

          The solution is simple - One State for all. The US should disarm the Palestinians and Israelis and serve as a neutral occupier, enforcing peace.

          Our tax dollars are spent in that cause anyway. Let's do it directly and cut out the middleman.

        • What about (0+ / 0-)

          the murder of Palestinians by Jews? What about the taking of land by Jews?

          And the Israelis started the war in 1967 as a means of taking more land.

          That is one of the reasons they attacked the USS Liberty and murdered Americam sailors. They believed this American spy ship was monitoring Israeli communications confirming this fact.

          The solution is disarming Arabs and Jews in Israel and Palestine with Americans occupying the area as part of a "One State" solution. And forcible dismantling of the settlements if necessary.

There's much more. There are actually some decent posters there (like Pumpkinlove), but there are some really vile ones too. Anyway, Zionist American will go back to her own blog and won't be posting at Kos any more. And if any Kossack's are reading this (and it's inevitable that some will), no, I am not Zionist American. I have never posted to Kos and have no desire to start now. In fact, in writing this post, I spent more time on the site than I have in the last four years combined.

On its 'about' page Kos brags
Among luminaries posting diaries on the site are President Jimmy Carter, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, and dozens of other senators, congressmen, and governors. But, even more exciting than that, tens of thousands of regular Americans have used Daily Kos to lend their voice to a political world once the domain of the rich, connected, and powerful.
While one may not need to be 'rich, connected and powerful' to post diaries on Kos, one apparently has to adopt certain views about the Middle East. I will be proud to share Zionist American's writings with you whenever she gives me the opportunity.

8 Comments:

At 3:56 AM, Blogger Ayatollah Ghilmeini said...

I bet Carter was the moron claiming Palestine existed for thousands of years in the past.

 
At 4:05 AM, Blogger directorblue said...

Excellent post. For any stragglers from the Daily Pravda, I'll simply point them at What really happened.

 
At 4:29 AM, Blogger Orde said...

Re: ayatollah's comment

Good bet, but Carter, being the weasel he is, doesn't directly say it, but disingenuously strongly implies it in a manner for which I have nothing but disgust, by manipulating speech to give the impression today's so-called Palestinians are descended from the ancient (but unrelated) Philistines.

Here's how he does it: In Chapter 4 ("Key Players"-p55) he starts out with "The Palestinians" and after asking "What is Palestine, and who are the Palestinians?" he then begins to go on at length about the Philistines who lived in the Land of Canaan. The trick he uses though is that he connects his question about Palestinians (Arabs) to the Philistines (non-Arabs) by saying "The name is an ancient one, derived from the Philistines..." Nowhere does he say that the name was subsequently misapplied to the Palestinians, but by going on and on about the Philistines immediately after saying the name Palestine comes from Philistine, he lets stand his deceptive impression that they are related, and that therefore today's "Palestinians" have claims of historical priority since "The Land of Canaan" and Canaanites, including Philistines, were there before Israel.

Is this guile not pure evil?

 
At 5:42 AM, Blogger Laura said...

The comments at Kos must have been really bad, because they are no longer available - clicking on the comment link just reloads the page with no comments.

 
At 6:23 AM, Blogger NormanF said...

The Left erased the truth about history. There was never a Palestinian nationality in all of history. The only one that existed was the Jewish one. The Arabs appropriated the term "Palestinian" when the Jews of the Mandate became Israeli.

Even then, they're not exactly attached at having their own homeland, as their behavior over the past 60 year demonstrates. Their real reason for demanding one is not due to a desire for self-determination but simply to acquire a means to destroy the world's only Jewish State.

There never was a Palestine and there will never be one insofar as the Palestinians reject the right of Jews to independent statehood in the Middle East.

 
At 9:00 AM, Blogger Shy Guy said...

Lenin's “utter simpletons”, who also happen to be “useful idiots”.

 
At 12:51 PM, Blogger Thud said...

kos at least serves the purpose of letting us know just what the enemy within thinks...they just can't help but let all thier hate spill out.

 
At 6:41 PM, Blogger nachtwache said...

Wow, people sure get worked up, I guess if you're wrong, getting nasty and vulgar are attempts at silencing the truth with intimidation. What's that part about protesting too much..?
Zionist American's post was well written and accurate from what I've learned. Some people can't handle the truth.

 

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