Israel Matzav

ABC News interview with Dhimmi Carter

ABC News' George Stephanopoulos interviewed former US President Dhimmi Carter on ABC's This Week about his upcoming trip to the Middle East and his meeting this Friday with Hamas politburo chief Khaled Meshaal. Here's what Carter had to say (Hat Tip: Memeorandum). What's most amazing about it is Carter's continued ability to ignore anything else that has happened unless it happened to him personally. It's as if no one else tried negotiating with Hamas and bringing them into the fold. Only Carter's efforts matter in Carter's book. An astounding bit of hubris if I ever heard of one.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You are on your way to the Middle East, as well, where you'll be meeting, it's been reported, with the leader of Hamas, Khaled Mashaal.

You'll be the highest-ranking American ever to meet with him. His group is labeled a terrorist organization by the United States, and the State Department advised against the meeting.

Why are you doing it anyway?

CARTER: Well, the State Department has not advised me against a meeting. I haven't heard that. [Maybe the State Department ought to respond to that. CiJ] But I've been in Africa and here in Nepal. They may have.

But I've not confirmed our itinerary yet for the Syrian visit, but it's likely that I will be meeting with the Hamas leaders. We'll be meeting with the Israelis. We'll be meeting with Fatah.

We'll be meeting with the Syrians, the Egyptians, the Jordanians, the Saudi Arabians, and with the whole gamut of people who might have to play a crucial role in any future peace agreement that involves the Middle East.

As a matter of fact, I've been meeting with Hamas leaders for years. As a matter of fact, 10 years ago, after Arafat was first elected president of the PLO and the Palestinians, we were monitoring that election, and I met with Hamas afterwards.

And then, in January of 2006, we were the monitors there for the Palestinian election, and Hamas won the election. We met with them after the election was over.

And so, I think that it's very important that at least someone meet with the Hamas leaders to express their views, to ascertain what flexibility they have [as if no one has done that since 2006. Totally disingenuous. CiJ], to try to induce them to stop all attacks against innocent civilians in Israel and to cooperate with the Fatah as a group that unites the Palestinians, maybe to get them to agree to a ceasefire -- things of this kind. [Forget about Hamas agreeing to a 'cease fire.' That's a hudna. Thanks, but no thanks. CiJ]

But I might add very quickly, that I'm not going as a mediator or a negotiator. This is a mission that we take as part of an overall Carter Center project, to promote peace in the region.

Since the election was over -- the one that I just mentioned, in 2006 -- we've had a full-time office in Ramallah, trying to keep me informed about what progress was made and what things weren't. [I'm sure they're very busy there. /sarc. CiJ]

But my overwhelming commitment is to support fully the peace effort that has been supported and endorsed by President Bush and by Secretary Condoleezza Rice, and by the Israelis and the Palestinians.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But Secretary Rice just said this week that it's hard to see what can be gained by you meeting with the Hamas leader, because Hamas is an impediment to peace.

CARTER: Well, I'll be sharing what I find with Secretary Rice. And I don't find myself able to anticipate, without having a meeting with them, what they might have to contribute.

But I think there's no doubt in anyone's mind that, if Israel is ever going to find peace with justice concerning the relationship with their next-door neighbors, the Palestinians, that Hamas will have to be included in the process. [Big IF there. CiJ]

And I might add that the Israeli people, according to the most recent poll that's been published in many media, fully believe that the Israeli government itself should be engaged with direct negotiations with Hamas. Sixty-four percent, I believe, of Israelis believe this. [ Maybe someone ought to enlighten Dhimmi about some other things most Israelis think. CiJ].

So, I think someone should be meeting with Hamas to see what we can do to encourage them to be cooperative and to find out what their attitude.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Your trip has also become fodder for the political campaign here at home. Senators Obama and Clinton and both said they would not meet with the Hamas leader. Several Democratic congressmen are urging you not to follow through with the meeting.

And former Speaker Newt Gingrich pounced on this, saying Democrats ought to disinvite you from their convention, because of this proposed meeting.

Are you worried that you might be making trouble for Senators Clinton, Obama and other Democrats?

CARTER: Well, I was not amazed to find that all political candidates -- not only those running for president, but those running for the U.S. Senate, for governor or Congress -- would be critical of any American who met with Hamas or with the Maoists here in Nepal, and so forth, that the United States government condemns.

But I feel quite at ease in doing this. It's something that the Carter Center has adopted as a goal, after I left the office, to promote peace, to promote human rights and justice, and democracy and freedom, and to alleviate suffering. And sometimes we are criticized...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Yet...

CARTER: ... but I try to bear the criticism with relative equanimity.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And you still have a smile on your face.

Yet, sir, Hamas has not renounced violence and will not recognize Israel.

Why is it right to meet with them in the absence of a renunciation of violence and recognition of Israel?

CARTER: Well, you can't always get prerequisites adopted by other people before you even talk to them. [And if you talk until you're blue in the face - which is what has happened with Hamas since 2006 - and they still don't renounce violence or recognize Israel, then what? Do you ever stop talking to them? It seems that Dhimmi doesn't. CiJ]

The last meetings that I've had with Hamas leaders, immediately following the election in January of 2006, they told me that they were willing to declare, along with Israel, a complete ceasefire in Gaza and in the West Bank [See hudna above. CiJ], that they were fully endorsing the right and authority of Mahmoud Abbas, the Fatah leader, to negotiate on behalf of all the Palestinians -- including them -- and that whatever peace agreement he was able to negotiate with the Israelis, they would fully support it in advance, provided that it was presented to the Palestinian people in a referendum.

So, I've heard some reports directed to me early on, that they might be somewhat flexible. And I intend to find out if these are their prevailing thoughts now.

And when I find out whether they are accurate or whether they're inaccurate, the latest opinion of the Hamas leaders with whom I will meet -- and I'll just meet with a few -- then I'll share what I find with the Israelis and with Fatah, and also, of course, with the American government officials.

Cox and Forkum (I miss those guys) summed up Dhimmi's attitude nicely in this cartoon:

posted by Carl in Jerusalem @ 12:12 AM