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Sunday, September 09, 2007

The Israeli neo-Nazis are no surprise

There's a lot of hand-wringing in the media, especially outside of Israel, about the busting of a group of Israeli neo-Nazis, which was released for publication over the weekend. Sorry, but no surprises here.

Just to clear up some inaccuracies that have appeared in the media: All but one of them are not Jewish under Jewish law. They are all Russian immigrants who were brought to Israel under the Law of Return, which ironically adopts Hitler's definition of a Jew - anyone who had a Jewish grandparent. Under Jewish law, one is Jewish only if one has (or had) a Jewish mother or if one converted to Judaism in accordance with Jewish law. All of them fit the Law of Return's definition of a Jew, but only one of them fits the Jewish law definition.

Second, they aren't all in their "late teens and early twenties" as has been reported in the media. Two of them are teenagers who are under the age of 18. The lawyer for one of those two was interviewed on Israel Radio this morning and claimed that his client was a computer whizz who chanced upon the group's internet site and was tricked into helping them. He claimed his client tried to withdraw after his first 'activity' but was threatened. Take it with a grain of salt.

Third, this is not the first time we have discovered neo-Nazis in Israel. They were already discovered in the IDF of all places several months ago. Lest you think this means that neo-Nazis are risking their lives for Israel, the ratio of non-combat to combat soldiers in the IDF is seven to one and the article I quoted has no reference to them being in a combat unit. As I noted at the time and again in my post on this subject last night, these people (or their parents) were brought here by the Jewish Agency in the late 80's and early 90's out of a need to fill quotas. No one cared whether they were interested in living in Israel. In most cases, they were interested in the basket of benefits that was given to Russians moving to Israel, and possibly in improving their long-term financial status. Israel probably has the most westernized economy that is south and east of the Mediterranean and west of Japan or Australia. Given that the Jewish Agency has now placed itself at the service of the 'Palestinians,' this sort of behavior is not surprising.

Gates of Vienna has a much more detailed report of what was actually discovered than I have posted, but the Baron seems to assume (incorrectly) that all of those arrested are Jewish. Again, under Jewish law they are not. But what I find more curious is this YNet article quoted by The Moderate Voice:
“Israel, as a society, failed in educating the youths discovered to be neo-Nazis,” Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said in response to the arrest of eight Petach Tikva teenagers for membership in a neo-Nazi cell.


“I’m sure that no one in Israel is indifferent to these scenes, which demonstrate that we as a society have failed in educating these youths and distancing them from crazy and dangerous ideologies.”
There is more than a little irony in those words coming from a Prime Minister whose government has probably done more to undermine our claim to the Land of Israel than any other government to date. There is more than a little irony in those words coming from a Prime Minister whose Education Minister wants to teach the 'point of view' that the creation of the State of Israel was a 'naqba' - a catastrophe. There is more than a little irony in those words coming from a Prime Minister whose number one concern is the creation of a 'Palestinian' state reichlet, whose goal is to wipe out the Jewish state. There is more than a little irony in those words coming from a Prime Minister who is 'negotiating' the establishment of a 'Palestinian' reichlet with the Holocaust denier, Abu Mazen.

At the end of the day, the only difference between the 'Palestinians' and the Nazis is that the 'Palestinians' 'only' wish to wipe out the Jews in Israel, leaving the task of wiping out the Jews in the rest of the world to their fellow Islamists. The Nazis thought they were up to the task themselves.

Olmert is right that 'Israeli society' failed in educating these 'youths.' And as the self-proclaimed leader of 'Israeli society' he should be the first to take the blame.


At 8:01 PM, Blogger Baron Bodissey said...

Actually, if you read all they way to the end of my post, you'll see that I only assert that the Nazis would most assuredly have regarded these guys as Jews.

Whether or not they actually are Jews is not for me to say -- I'm way too ignorant of the rules to offer an opinion.

But I can definitely imagine what Hitler's opinion would have been...

At 8:06 PM, Blogger Carl in Jerusalem said...


Sorry, I didn't read carefully enough at the end.

Hitler probably would have been thrilled about this and would have been pleased to co-opt them just as he did with Haj Amin al-Husseini.

At 8:32 PM, Blogger Macker said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

At 8:37 PM, Blogger Macker said...

Now that I know my Google account works...sorry Carl...
I hope that any and all Israelis who live near these scumbags make their lives miserable! They may be eligible according to the Law of Return, but that doesn't mean they can get away with what they're doing.
Make it Hell for them!

At 9:09 PM, Blogger Unknown said...

As a person who grew up in NYC I was always under the impression that the right of return was only offered (talking about the grandchildren) to people who had a jewish grandmother. Blood was traced on the maternal side.

My grandpa was a Jew who married a Gentile so I was told I wasn't Jewish in any way (except of course, if I lived in Nazi Germany). Just childhood memories coming back on this topic.

At 9:49 PM, Blogger Will48 said...

Allegedly, Nazis considered anyone to be Jewish if they had a Jewish grandparent. However, this was not mandatory, and was up to a discretion of those (presumably in SS or whatever) dealing with the issue. Specifically, the child of a Jew and a non-Jew would be decided to be Jewish only if they themselves exhibited acute non-Arian features (nose, eyes etc) or proclaimed themselves as such.

This is why there were many "half-Jews" who actually served in the Wehrmacht - not to speak of a "quarter-Jews". So this claim that anyone with a Jewish grandparent would be automatically considered Jewish by the Nazis is just FALSE. It's a myth.

The Jewish law OTOH considers a child of a Jewish mother a Jew. The Law of Return is applicable to anyone whose grandarent is a Jew, so, ted from NYC, you are eligible. The Jewish Agency representatives for some reason don't always approve, but you can always go to Israel and apply directly yourself at the Foreign Ministry.

At 9:51 PM, Blogger Unknown said...


You would be right in some but not in total regard. That is to say, few 1/4 ethnic Jews were sent to death camps. Many if not most survived the war, or if they were males, actually served in the Wehrmacht. All wealthy one were to a large extent extorted however(some famous examples would be the Wittgenstein family).

The last point is, just because Nazis considered someone something aught not be a definition for another group. Jews and Slavs and others were considered something by Nazi "science" and the political machine, these groups would not necessarily (if ever) agree to those definitions.

At 11:47 PM, Blogger ibrium said...

Even if they all were authentic jews, does it make any difference?

I seriously don't understand what's all this commotion in the media about. War in Lebanon was covered less than this story..

At 11:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why in heaven are you not running the country? This is so darn frustrating.

At 12:37 AM, Blogger in the vanguard said...

It's also worthy to note that the lousy education Olmert decries happens to first come from his own house; Where do his children live, and what is their stance vis-a-vis their own country, and which served in the army?

At 2:20 AM, Blogger Christian Soldier said...

Islamists? You must mean muslims. The goal of a muslims is to take over the world as stated in the unholy koran.

At 7:50 AM, Blogger Carl in Jerusalem said...

Online one state bibliography project,

"HOWEVER, in the end, if Israel had not imported the million plus Russians - many, or even most, of them non-Jewish - then the non-Arab population between the river and the sea would already be a definite minority to the Arab population. There just aren't enough legitimate Jews to maintain the current "Greater Israel," thus the floods of non-Jewish olim, the mass conversions of Ethiopians, Indians, and Peruvian Indians, and so on. These measures - the desperation for any non-Arab/Muslim immigrants - undermines the "Jewish character" of Israel just as surely as any compromise with the native Palestinians would."

I disagree. The demographic projections (and even current population) of 'Palestinians' is grossly exaggerated. If you go here and follow the links you will see some of the proof.

At 4:51 PM, Blogger Online One State Bibliography Project said...

Hi Carl,

First, the "brain drain" of Palestinian educated elites that choose to move abroad mostly for economic reasons is true enough; but this is hardly unique to them. I've seem estimates about Palestinian emigration that have suggested up to 100,000 have left; but compared to the 760,000 Israeli Jews who have left for the exact same reason [Gideon Alon,"760,000 Israelis have left the Promised Land," Ha'aretz 19 November 2003] this Palestinian emigration is hardly helping the Israeli demographic situation.

Secondly, my understanding of the Mufti's fatwa is that it was primarily concerned with Palestinians leaving East Al Quds, not Palestine in general. Feel free to post a link or suggest a source if my understanding is mistaken.

Third, like it or not, no state is interested in accepting significant numbers of Palestinian emigrants, at least not significant enough to actually help the Israeli demographic situation. A few here and there, and usually those with good educations, can leave; but like the Israeli emigrants (who are far more welcome than Palestinian ones in the West) none of them are breaking their ties with their homeland or writing it off.

I know a lot of people on the Right like to "fudge the figures" and imagine that there really aren't as many Palestinians as there actually are because this allows them to "bury their heads in the sand" and pretend like there is no problem. But this doesn't change the actual reality of the situation at all, thus Israel's desperate drive to bring in as many non-Arab/Muslim immigrants as it can, despite the fact that this erases the "Jewish identity" of Israel just as surely as any peace with the Palestinians (on either side of the Green Line) would.

Israel chose territory and political control over its identity as a "Jewish state" and will have to deal with the consequences of this decision.

At 8:42 PM, Blogger David Lindsay said...

How I was scorned on my blog and elsewhere a couple of months ago for pointing out a few home truths about what Israeli society was now like. But now, to apparently universal shock yet entirely predictably, an Israeli neo-Nazi gang has been discovered.

Over half of Israeli Jews are now Sephardic, with little or no ethnic memory of the Holocaust, but rather culturally Arab, while the Israeli Arabs ordinarily so called continue to grow at a far healthier rate than do the ageing, dying Ashkenazi Zionists.

Put these two factors together, and Israel is simply reverting to membership of a much older, deeper and wider Leventine society of Jewish, Christian, Muslim and Druze Arabs, with its capital (insofar as it has one) at Damascus; Greater Syria, if you will.

That, in turn, will be a very significant and welcome force for pan-Arabism against “political Islam”.

The Ashkenazim could prevent this by the simple expedient of having children. They are not doing so, and they are not going to do so. Indeed, the single most common name for new born baby boys within Israel’s pre-1967 borders is now Muhammad.

Is there an alternative? Well, if it can be so described, then it has now made itself abundantly clear.

The Law of Return, the touchstone of Zionism, is flooding Israel with resolutely Russian-speaking pork sausage munchers of the most tenuous Jewishness, who are at best Christians, and in some cases violent Nazis. This is impossible to arrest without repealing the Law of Return.

(On the ever-expanding lists of Book That I Will Write Eventually is a study of the post-War political impact, right up to the present day, of each of the foreign divisions of the SS and Waffen SS, even leaving aside the persistent rumours of British and American divisions, some of whose members would presumably still be alive. Of course, I’ll first have to teach myself to read German properly.)

Thus is dying the Zionist project, not dramatically as a result of an Iranian or Iraqi nuking, but slowly, though determinedly and irreversibly. The question now is who will inherit the spoils. The little Muhammads? Or the Little Hitlers? It will be one or the other.

I know which I’d prefer, and I know which anyone who still thinks that the Holocaust is important ought to prefer. Do they?

If so, then they must repeal the Law of Return, thereby consigning Zionism to the history books.

At 4:59 PM, Blogger erin said...

Under Jewish law, one is Jewish only if one has (or had) a Jewish
mother or if one converted to Judaism in accordance with Jewish law.

I guess you meant Orthodox Law, I am sure you know that Orthoxy
is a minority of the Jewish people and they for most part are living off the government (American or Israeli).

The Modern-Orthodox are productive members of society in both countries
But you , I see, consider yourself 'ultra-Orthodox’ so you probably
Have nothing to do with them.

BTW, did any of your children serve in the military ? do they work ? or they parasites living off the seculars and the modern orthodox

At 10:16 AM, Blogger snefrou said...

this simply indicates that Israel is a "normal" state. I do not think that an amendment to the Law of Return would change anything : after all, we were already confronted to young Neonazis being truly of Jewish stock [according to Halakhah]. This can be partly explained either by the well attested "hate of oneself" or by the lack of proper moral education. racism is unfortunately not unknown to young Jews in Israel or abroad. I do not believe that the hate towards Arabs [we are not obliged to love them but we definitely have to live with them. We will stay but they are not going to leave, that's a fact] could not create the path to communitarism, that is an ethnic community living for itself (Russians, Ethiopians, Moroccans, Poles etc). I am afraid we are going to fail in the melting pot ideal. I'd like to be wrong but I could already witness it : I know guys who hate the idea of their daughter being dated by an Ethiopian Jew "he is not white… not one of us". This is painful and I would never have believed to hear that here one day. Jews are humans and humans are what they are, no better no worse. We'll have to deal with the problem of racism like any other nation, whatever shocking it is for us to see that the teachings of history didn't work better here than anywhere else. Thank you for reading my comment and please do excuse my writing with mistakes since English isn't my mothertongue (I'm a Sephardi from Algerian origin, French speaking)


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